i had a very interesting conversation with some folks today .folks that really are into what this village is really about. they seem to think that we let ovpu die too quickly. what do you think? maybe we should bring it back when the snowbirds get back and have a town hall meeting?
i personally felt beat up after the delegate assembly last week and i went home ,had an adult beverage and thought about how the count of votes at the assembly was not correct. there were more votes that were not counted around the room and how many times must we tell delegates to sit in the front when a vote needs to be taken? we should have had a roll call vote.
i respect all the opinions that were heard but i want to know how many of you out there think we have a shot at bringing back the issue of one vote per unit? if there are enough of us we will wait until season and call a town meeting. what do you think of that?
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Phyllis:
ReplyDeleteI am with you 100%.
Phyllis,
ReplyDeleteAny very important issue like the OVPU should be presented when the majority of Delegates are in attendance. There is certainly nothing wrong with presenting again, in complete detail, the pro's and con's regarding the OVPU. You have all the legal opinions in hand, and should be well versed in order to give a comprehensive presentation later in the year.
Phyllis & Randall:
ReplyDeleteI agree 1000% with you. This SHOULD be brought up again when the majority of Delegares are here.
An extremely important issue for the Village AND its future.
I and others are with you on this one. DO NOT LET IT DIE!!!!!!
I am not for it but everyone has their own idea.
ReplyDeleteWould someone please lay out OVPU and the side effects that were partly referred to at the Del Mtg.
ReplyDeleteI did not think it was at all clear so I voted for the $$ to continue clarifying it.
A bunch of people want OVPUBNI (one vote per unit but no involvement). That vote would be for the prez and officers. The delegates would still vote for the Executive Board ? who would replace the Delegate Assembly as the decision making Board of Directors? The Executive Board is not fit for this IMHO. Where does the big money Operations Cmte fit in?
“You have all the legal opinions in hand,” really! Maybe if we had been thru planning meetings. This has more unknown side effects than new drugs.
Maybe I could be persuaded otherwise, but at the moment I am not in favor of One Vote per Unit (OVPU). Association owners vote for their board members, whom they trust to make sensible decisions about things including how the delegate (usually a board member) votes at delegate meetings. This is representative government.
ReplyDeleteThe point is often made that many associations show little or no interest in UCO affairs, and it’s true. Would you say that perhaps a third of our associations are not represented at delegates meetings and participate to the least extent possible? Whether it’s a third or a quarter, this is at least a MUCH smaller percentage than the percentage of OVERALL OWNERS who are inactive and uninformed.
I don’t see the point of going out and beating the bushes trying to get 95% of the owners to suddenly become active participants, when the more sensible goal would be to get the 25-33% of inactive delegates and association presidents to become active. If we can’t do the latter, which it seems to me should come first, how can we expect to do the former?
There is one way we could do the former, of course, and I hope this isn’t in the thinking of any of those in favor of OVPU. It’s to buy an election. It can be done. It is done all the time in politics. Someone with a lot of money backs a candidate and floods the market with campaign literature and promises. Do we want THAT operating in Century Village?
Besides this, I am afraid OVPU will be very costly to administer. The $2000 that was voted down was merely to pay attorney fees to LOOK INTO the matter. If approved, the cost of implementing the plan, with absentee ballots and all, would be huge, I would think.
But I am open for my mind to be changed.
Hi Elaine,
ReplyDeleteThe Executive Board becomes the new board of Directors and consists of all direct elected officers in even years and 20 elected by the Delegate Assembly in odd numbered years(December)to two-year terms. The draft (by Rod Tennyson)eliminates staggered terms for both officers and the Excutive Board members. All officers are directly elected in January of even numbered years.This is the only time of year that the voting machines will be available. The Operations Committee is uneffected.
Motions which pass at the Delegate Assembly, become recommendations to the Executive Board to be placed on the agenda for final determination. Meetings of the Executive Board (new Board of Directors)should be held AFTER the Delegate Assembly meets. The powers retained by the Delegate Assembly are financial decisions, budget decisions, and Bylaw Amendment decisions.
Elaine, there were two meetings which discussed OVPU in depth; one OVPU meeting, and one Advisory Committee meeting.
Since Phyllis is the Chair of the OVPU Committee, all future questions should be answered by Phyllis, as I do not wish to usurp her authority in this matter.
As I understand it from what you say, Randy, except for the three things (financial & budget decisions and bylaw amendment decisions), the present delegate assembly and executive board essentially trade places under OVPU. The delegates act in an advisory capacity, and the executive board makes the decisions. This puts the real power (except for the financial and bylaws, which is quite a bit) in the hands of the 28(?) persons who comprise the executive board.
ReplyDeleteTwenty of these 28(?) people, a clear majority, are elected by the delegates. This gives the individual owners direct say in the election of only the minority—which, however, includes the president and four vice presidents, etc., making it an effective and pretty powerful minority. It gives them a two-tiered, LESS direct say than they now have in the election of the majority. Why two-tiered and thus less direct say? Because the owners elect their boards, from where the delegates come (Step 1) and the delegates elect the majority of the executive board (Step 2).
I can see a built-in fairness to this, BUT:
1. Our associations are separate entities with separate rights and responsibilities, EXCEPT for what they have ceded to UCO. Many of our associations jealously guard their individual rights and responsibilities. (I don’t use “jealously” in the bad sense.) It seems to me they cede more authority to a central administrative body under the new system. Do we want this?
2. From what I hear, it is apparently up for question to what extent the associations have even NOW ceded their rights and responsibilities to UCO, the “central authority.” If there is uncertainty in even the present arrangement, might not making the OVPU change (by majority vote of the present delegates AND NOT BY ALL ASSOCIATIONS SIGNING ON) only add uncertainty to uncertainty? And require the attorneys to argue and unravel all this? Attorneys we will all be paying for?
We have a propensity for creating a can of worms around here, and I wonder if this could end up being another one.
Hi Lanny,
ReplyDeleteThe OVPU change that you mentioned would require 2/3 of the seated delegates (delegates present)
not the majority that you mentioned, since the OVPU would require an extensive Bylaw Amendment to go into effect.
If OVPU passes, there would be twenty elected members of the Executive Board (by the Delegate Assembly), the eight officers (elected by direct elections) and the up to eight selected members by the President, each selection subject to the approval of the Delegate Assembly.
Thank you, Randy. This is gradually becoming clearer to me now. If OVPU is to be pursued again, through some medium all the facts should be laid out on the table for ALL to see and think about and get to understand. Nothing should be rushed. People need time to get to understand these complicated things, and they like to feel consulted.
ReplyDeleteI suppose one of the obstacles to doing this was the very decision by the executive board and the delegate assembly to not pay the extra $1000 in attorney fees to be ABLE to get clearer on this all. Well, I think that is because the same measure has been turned down before, and people are tired of it being brought up again. I must say, though, that even in this little exchange on the blog, YOU have cleared up some of this for me already, without the attorneys having to get into the act.
This all (including whether a majority or 2/3 vote) begs the question, however, of whether present-day UCO is a "valid entity" and leaves open the possibility that to not get the okay from ALL 309 associations on OVPU might only embroil us in more tangles. All the associations had to approve the present setup; why might not this hold for approving the OVPU setup?
Lanny,
ReplyDeleteI fear you are making a mistaken assumption that all 309 Associations had approved the present representational structure. In the beginning, there were, I believe three separate entities which 'ran the Village' and it had been decided that there should only be one entity representing all Associations... thus UCO was formed with the Articles of Incorporation, and then the Bylaws were subsequently constructed.
Thanks Randall, ditto what Lanny said about better explanation. It should be possible to list the structural components of our CV government, and state the before duties, and changes after OVPU.
ReplyDeleteAnd then we need to know WHY the duties of the Delegate Assy and the Executive Board are changing. At the meeting this was barely hinted at. Just push the bodies around to fit the new bylaws, WHAT! Why new bylaws, apart from juicy billable hours for lawyers what is the reason? The bylaw explanation needs to be as thorough as the extensive explanations of voting machines and dates.
Randy I was not suggesting there were no planning meetings, only that all the Delegates could not be expected to be there to hear reasoning. They need the facts at the DA.
Re visit this issue in "Season"?
ReplyDeleteBrilliant idea..I'm quite confident
those delegates, who spend 3-6 mts.
elsewhere,would OVERWHELMINGLY
sanction the expenditure of addt'l
funds for exploratory purposes..
(approx. 1,000 has already been spent from the Legal fund ) and
what of the costs associated with
Implementation?
Unless, there is a BENEFACTOR out
there, wishing to assume financial
responsibility, my position still
stands...
I would like to know if it is not a top secret, in U.C.O., of the board members who is for and who is against this idea of ovpu. If it can be finished for against this idea, then not bring it up again at the delegate meeting. Or this has to go to the ex board also?
ReplyDeleteHey Marc,
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that the Executive Board had such division in this matter considering that their power to make decisions for the Village would have been increased, while the Delegate Assembly's powers would, in most instances, be decreased. There is a catch 22 in this matter. In order to make an informed decisions regarding OVPU, a certain amount of legal counsel was absolutely necessary to be obtained so that all questions could be properly answered.
Unfortunately, due to physical issues, and medical appointments, I was unable to attend the D.A. meeting, and was also late for the Executive Board meeting, as I would have loved to have been able to provide a wealth of information regarding the OVPU. I would suppose that come December or even January, sufficient numbers of Delegates would have returned to CV, and this issue can again be brought to the table. Delegates could not be expected to make informed decisions without a comprehensive knowledge of what they are voting for. The idea of holding a town hall style meeting would provide the information necessary to make such informed decisions.
From the disk of Peter Amato
ReplyDeletePresident Obama was told his health bill was dead 1/2 dozen times. He persisted and sure enough we now have a health bill.
Now we have the same situation with one condo one vote. It appears dead, but persistence can and will bring it back to life.
How! is the question!
The answer is through a grass roots movement.
The People, all the people of our village must be acquainted with the fact, they do not have a direct voice in how our village is run.
In 1919 congress passed the 19th amendent to the U.S. constitution this allowed woman the vote.
This amendment is only 40 words.
The problem as I see it, is, a large number of the people that are presently running our village Do Not want to give up their power.
These people are looking at this situation with and eye toward Why It Won't Work.
Instead we should think, how can we accomplish One Condo One Vote
Quick out line of One Condo One Vote
1. For every condo you own in Century Village you're entitled to one vote.
2. Absentee Ballots
The responsibility of voting when absent or unable to get to a polling area lies with the resident.
If you know your not going to be able to vote it is the residents responsibility to supply a stamped self addressed envelope so that you may receive a ballot